I was playing at my local casino one night and came across an unusual event at the craps table. The table was full and I was standing at SL1. The player in the corner, three spots to my left, had just won a place bet of 6 and was paid by the base dealer. The winning bet was placed not directly in front of him but slightly of center and was put directly on the line that divides the pass line and the big Six, big Eight.
The dealer then told the player that his winnings were to be picked up or it would count as another bet. But what would his next bet be? The big Six or Eight? The player in the corner was not aware of his winning bet and had assumed the bet belonged to the player beside him. The player was wrong not to pick up his winning bet, but that’s the rules of the game. In all the confusion, another number was rolled and the dealer picked up the player’s checks.
After realizing the dealer picked up his winnings, the player started arguing with the base dealer. Now you see this all the time where the dealers and players argue over unpaid bets. What made me uncomfortable, along with the shouting and arguing, was the fact that the game came to a stop and now everyone’s attention was focused at these two guys throwing accusations back and forth.
The base dealer, in my view, was correct to pick up the losing bet. The fact that the dealer was shouting at the customer, before even checking with the boxman, was not good in the customer relations department. The boxman was also not very professional. He just stared straight ahead as if nothing was happening. He should have took control of the situation and calmed things down. None of this happened and the customer colored up and cashed out. As he was leaving the table the dealer sarcastically shouted, "have a good evening".
I couldn’t believe it what I was seeing. Two casino employees treating a customer of the game like he didn’t matter. I’m not sure if this dealer is still working there, but I have played at this casino many times where the dealers and boxman were very professional and delt the game properly. I will definitely not play if I see these individuals working a table. I say treat the customer with respect and maybe they will come back to play another day.
Just my thoughts. Anyone ever see this happening?
Cmcierra
Replies:
Posted by: Dr Crapology on December 11, 2012, 1:44 am
Usually a casino personal (usually the pit boss) will rule in favor of the player since the economy has been bad and business is bad. At least this what I usually see at the tables when something like this happens. The casino needs all the good PR it can get.
There will always be a few bad apples to spoil the whole craps table.
Hope your next experience is a better one.
Doc
Posted by: Scan on December 11, 2012, 11:35 am
I thought it was very unprofessional
Posted by: brothelman on December 12, 2012, 12:40 am
Yes we need to start a letter writting campaign.
when ever we see a dealer or pit critter acting not to nicely we need to get there name and shifts they work, there boss email and his bosses email, then we need to post this info on the web so the members can ban togather and write letters.
Yes i believe that many letter stating how badly this person acted out would help this problem, one complaint oh well but fifty over the next two weeks some one would do somthing about it , maybe even treat us better.
Picture this someone is out playing and they get treated badly for what ever reason, they post the inncident on the web with the info needed,like persones name involved there boss and there bosses boss and the shifts they work, after the site recieves the info we act by writting many letter about how badly we saw one of there employes treating someone, how bad this person made us feel, is that the norm for there casino, why do they lelt it go on and so on.It is easy to break on tooth pick but put one hundreed of them together will not bend.
Posted by: Cmcierra on December 12, 2012, 11:16 pm
Posted by: Scan on December 12, 2012, 11:34 pm
Posted by: Pit Boss on December 15, 2012, 4:10 pm
What state is the casino in?
Posted by: Cmcierra on December 15, 2012, 10:15 pm
Cmcierra
Posted by: Pit Boss on December 16, 2012, 3:00 pm
The Big 6&8 are not one time bets. They stay up until the 7 shows. In Vegas and the west they pay the 6&8 even money. In AC where most layout do not even have the Big 6&8 on the layout, they are supposed to pay it like a place bet.
BTW, my guy hated the Big 6&8 on the layout because it is a "self service" bet. The players that did not know the game bet weird amounts on the layout, the game would come to a grinding halt when these bets had to be figured out and paid.
I believe most table in AC have removed the bet from their layouts.
Posted by: Cmcierra on December 16, 2012, 3:43 pm
Cmcierra
Posted by: Cmcierra on December 16, 2012, 3:48 pm
Cmcierra
Posted by: Skinny on December 16, 2012, 5:29 pm
"Pit Boss" wrote: Verified this with a dealer that worked in AC for 17 years as a craps dealer.
The Big 6&8 are not one time bets. They stay up until the 7 shows. In Vegas and the west they pay the 6&8 even money. In AC where most layout do not even have the Big 6&8 on the layout, they are supposed to pay it like a place bet.
BTW, my guy hated the Big 6&8 on the layout because it is a "self service" bet. The players that did not know the game bet weird amounts on the layout, the game would come to a grinding halt when these bets had to be figured out and paid.
I believe most table in AC have removed the bet from their layouts.
You are correct Pit Boss. AC does not allow the casinos to have the Big 6&8 wager.
You will not find the Big 6&8 bet in AC.
Only the 40 bets listed below are allowed in AC.
N.J.A.C. 13:69F-1.2
NEW JERSEY ADMINISTRATIVE CODE
Copyright (c) 2012 by the New Jersey Office of Administrative Law
*** This file includes all Regulations adopted and published through the ***
*** New Jersey Register, Vol. 44, No. 23, December 3, 2012 ***
TITLE 13. LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY
CHAPTER 69F. RULES OF THE GAMES
SUBCHAPTER 1. CRAPS AND MINI-CRAPS
N.J.A.C. 13:69F-1.2 (2012)
§ 13:69F-1.2 Permissible wagers
(a) The following shall constitute the permissible wagers at the games of craps, mini-craps and automated craps, except that the fire bet in (a)40 below shall only be permitted at the game of craps:
1. "Pass Bet" is a wager placed on the Pass Line of the layout immediately prior to the come out roll.
i. The Pass Bet shall win if, on the come out roll:
(1) A total of 7 or 11 is thrown; or
(2) A total of 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10 is thrown and that total is again thrown before a 7 appears.
ii. The Pass Bet shall lose if, on the come out roll:
(1) A total of 2, 3, or 12 is thrown; or
(2) A total of 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 or 10 is thrown and a 7 subsequently appears before that total is again thrown.
2. "Don’t Pass Bet" is a wager placed on the Don’t Pass Line of the layout immediately prior to the come out roll.
i. The Don’t Pass Bet shall win if, on the come out roll:
(1) A total of 2 or 3 is thrown; or
(2) A total of 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10 is thrown and a 7 subsequently appears before that total is again thrown.
ii. The Don’t Pass Bet shall lose if, on the come out roll:
(1) A total of 7 or 11 is thrown; or
(2) A total of 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10 is thrown and that total is again thrown before a 7 appears.
iii. The Don’t Pass Bet shall be void if, on the come out roll, a total of 12 is thrown.
3. "Come Bet" is a wager placed on the Come Line of the layout at any time after the come out roll.
i. The Come Bet shall win if, on the roll immediately following placement of such bet:
(1) A total of 7 or 11 is thrown; or
(2) A total of 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10 is thrown and that total is again thrown before a 7 appears.
ii. The Come Bet shall lose if, on the roll immediately following placement of such bet:
(1) A total of 2, 3, or 12 is thrown; or
(2) A total of 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10 is thrown and a 7 subsequently appears before that total is again thrown.
4. "Don’t Come Bet" is a wager placed on the Don’t Come area of the layout at any time after the come out roll.
i. The Don’t Come Bet shall win if, on the roll immediately following placement of such bet:
(1) A total of 2 or 3 is thrown; or
(2) A total of 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10 is thrown and a 7 subsequently appears before that total is again thrown.
ii. The Don’t Come Bet shall lose if, on the roll immediately following placement of such bet:
(1) A total of 7 or 11 is thrown; or
(2) A total of 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10 is thrown and that total is again thrown before a 7 appears.
iii. The Don’t Come Bet shall be void if, on the roll immediately following placement of such bet, a total of 12 thrown.
5. "Place Bet to Win" is a wager that may be made at any time on any of the numbers 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10 which shall win if the number on which the wager was placed is thrown before a 7 and shall lose if a 7 is thrown before such number. All place bets shall be inactive on any come out roll unless called "on" by the player and confirmed by the dealer through placement of an "on" marker button on top of such player’s wager.
6. A "Place Bet to Lose" is a wager that may be made at any time against any of the numbers 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10 which shall win if a 7 is thrown before the particular number against which the wager is placed and shall lose if the particular number against which the wager is placed is thrown before a 7 appears.
7. "Four the Hardway" is a wager, that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 4 is thrown the hardway (that is, with 2 appearing on each die) before 4 is thrown in any other way and before a 7 is thrown.
8. "Six the Hardway" is a wager, that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 6 is thrown the hardway (that is, with 3 appearing on each die) before 6 is thrown in any other way and before a 7 is thrown.
9. "Eight the Hardway" is a wager, that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 8 is thrown the hardway (that is, with 4 appearing on each die) before 8 is thrown in any other way and before a 7 is thrown.
10. "Ten the Hardway" is a wager, that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 10 is thrown the hardway (that is, with 5 appearing on each die) before 10 is thrown in any other way and before a 7 is thrown.
11. "Field Bet" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time which shall win if any one of the totals 2, 3, 4, 9, 10, 11, or 12 is thrown on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if a total of 5, 6, 7 or 8 is thrown on such roll.
12. "Any Seven" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time which shall win if a total of 7 is thrown on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other total is thrown.
13. "Any Craps" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time which shall win if a total of 2, 3, or 12 is thrown on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other total is thrown.
14. "Craps Two" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time which shall win if a total of 2 is thrown on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other total is thrown.
15. "Craps Three" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time which shall win if a total of 3 is thrown on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other total is thrown.
16. "Craps Twelve" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time which shall win if a total of 12 is thrown on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other total is thrown.
17. "11 in One Roll" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time which shall win if a total of 11 is thrown on the next roll and shall lose if any other total is thrown.
18. "Craps-Eleven or C and E" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time which shall win, as provided at N.J.A.C. 13:69F-1.4(d), if either a craps (2, 3, or 12) or 11 is rolled immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other total is thrown.
19. "Horn Bet" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time which shall win if any one of the totals 2, 3, 11, or 12 is thrown on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other total is thrown.
20. "Horn High Bet" is a wager that may be made at any time which shall win if any one of the totals 2, 3, 11, or 12 is thrown on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other total is thrown. A Horn High Bet shall be placed in units of five with four units wagered as a Horn Bet and an additional unit wagered on one of the totals 2, 3, 11, or 12. A casino licensee that does not have a designated area on its layouts for the acceptance of a Horn High Bet shall break down the wager into two separate wagers on the "Horn" and one of the totals 2, 3, 11, or 12.
21. "Whirl Bet" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, consisting of a Horn Bet and the Any Seven wager. A Whirl Bet shall be placed in units of five, with four units wagered on 2, 3, 11, and 12 and the fifth unit wagered as an Any Seven wager. A casino licensee shall break down a Whirl wager into two separate wagers on the Horn Bet and the Any Seven wager.
22. "Four The Hardway on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 4 is thrown the hardway (that is, with 2 appearing on each die) on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
23. "Six The Hardway on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 6 is thrown the hardway (that is, with 3 appearing on each die) on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
24. "Eight The Hardway on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 8 is thrown the hardway (that is, with 4 appearing on each die) on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
25. "Ten The Hardway on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 10 is thrown the hardway (that is, with 5 appearing on each die) on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
26. "One-Three (Ace-Trey) on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 4 is thrown with a 1 appearing on one die and a 3 appearing on the other die on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
27. "One-Four (Ace-Four) on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 5 is thrown with a 1 appearing on one die and a 4 appearing on the other die on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
28. "Two-Three (Deuce-Trey) on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 5 is thrown with a 2 appearing on one die and a 3 appearing on the other die on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
29. "One-Five (Ace-Five) on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 6 is thrown with a 1 appearing on one die and a 5 appearing on the other die on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
30. "Two-Four (Deuce-Four) on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 6 is thrown with a 2 appearing on one die and a 4 appearing on the other die on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
31. "One-Six (Ace-Six) on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 7 is thrown with a 1 appearing on one die and a 6 appearing on the other die on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
32. "Two-Five (Deuce-Five) on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 7 is thrown with a 2 appearing on one die and a 5 appearing on the other die on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
33. "Three-Four (Trey-Four) on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 7 is thrown with a 3 appearing on one die and a 4 appearing on the other die on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
34. "Two-Six (Deuce-Six) on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 8 is thrown with a 2 appearing on one die and a 6 appearing on the other die on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
35. "Three-Five (Trey-Five) on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 8 is thrown with a 3 appearing on one die and a 5 appearing on the other die on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
36. "Three-Six (Trey-Six) on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 9 is thrown with a 3 appearing on one die and a 6 appearing on the other die on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
37. "Four-Five on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 9 is thrown with a 4 appearing on one die and a 5 appearing on the other die on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
38. "Four-Six on the Hop" is a one roll wager that may be made at any time, which shall win if a total of 10 is thrown with a 4 appearing on one die and a 6 appearing on the other die on the roll immediately following placement of such bet and shall lose if any other combination is thrown.
39. "6-7-8" is a one roll wager, offered at the election of a casino licensee, that may be made at any time, which shall win if any one of the totals 6, 7, or 8 is thrown on the roll immediately following the placement of such bet and shall lose if the total of 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 10, 11, or 12 is thrown on such roll.
40. "Fire bet" is a wager that may only be made prior to the come out roll of a new shooter, which wager shall win if at least four different (unique) point totals (either 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10) are made by the shooter before a loser 7 is thrown, and shall lose if fewer than four different (unique) point totals are made before a loser 7 is thrown.
(b) Only the wagers listed in subsection (a) above shall be permissible at the games of craps, mini-craps and automated craps.
