Hi Professor,

I was hoping to answer this on the new board as we don’t have to go to tinypic.com or other hosted image sites to post photos here.

The best results I have found is somewhere around 18"-22" from the back wall, and no higher than rail height. This gives me the softest shot possible, but you may want to start out with the stick closer to SR1, and slightly higher than rail height, say 18" from the table top. It will be a higher shot, but easier to manage as the apex of the angle is a little closer to you. It will give you a harder landing as there is more energy coming off, but it still works. Then, as you get more comfortable and progress to a softer shot, move the stick closer to the wall, but not closer than what is illustrated…otherwise you’ll be hitting pyramids off the cuff.

Hope this helps!

Attached files

Also, when you release the dice, your arm should not be above your shoulder. Some people release at shoulder height, and some below.

What month did you take the class? It sounds as though a refresher would be really helpful.

Goddess

Over the bar.

Eight, what a great idea. I have done this and this is how I do it. I simply rest my 4 foot "craps stick" across the table about 18" from the end. I find that I try and simply "set" the the dice over the stick. Guess what–the dice settle rather quickly after just touching the back wall. The dice hit the back wall every time.

My biggest problem has been that I tend to throw the dice to hard. With this technique my throw is much softer. Thanks for sharing.

Is GTC a great place or what.

Doc

Well done SE! Photos are great!

Let me add that the angle is going to be different for different tables. You have given a great starting point, but not the end all. The question in my mind is WHY the 45 degree angle?

What we are always trying to do is to get the dice dice to land with the most surface of the dice flat on the table top. this will release the most energy from the dice to the table and will help in getting rid of as much energy as possible. A 45 degree angle will do this the best with the most accuracy of hitting a spot on the table. if the angle is to low you will not get that "smack" that we are looking for.

The 45 degree is what you should start with and then depending on how your comeout shot looks either raise it or lower it

Dominator

DavidM Is this what you were looking for.

Good Rolling. 😀

Old posts may help IF you read them.

For new guys out there.

Here’s my thought on the topic:

We are looking for a 45 degree on landing on the plane of the table surface,
not at the release point which is on a plane some height above the table suface.
The angle at release must then necessarily be less than 45 degrees to produce
45 degrees at landing on the table surface, since approaching landing the
dice must pierce the release horizontal plane at less than 45 degrees to
result in 45 degrees on hitting the table surface for a soft landing with the
least amount of energy. So, yes, we should try to adjust our throw to end
at 45 degrees on the table surface, not to start at 45 degrees out at our fingers.

We can illustrate and prove this by using a garden hose at full stream and constant
flow. Hold the nozzle at ground level and direct the water to hit the ground at the
farthest point away from the nozzle and you will see that the nozzle has to be at
45 degrees to the ground. Increase the angle above 45 degrees and then decrease
the angle below 45 degrees and you will notice that the water stream will be
falling a shorter distance in both instances, proving that for the same amount
of energy from the water leaving the nozzle the maximum distance will be
achieved at 45 degrees.
This also says that for a desired distance the least energy needed and imparted
will be achieved if the landing is at 45 degrees.
The experiment can also be done by setting the nozzle at a higher plane (say 48
inches) above the ground and observing the nozzle angle, the landing angle and
the horizontal distance the water stream reaches.

On the topic of the dice landing face flat on the table, I cannot think of how this
can be achieved since we cannot control the dice faces when they are pitching
surface over surface. Landing with a smack, to me, has to be by accident,
not by intent or by skill. But I’ll take luck anytime it happpens.

Your thoughts, anyone?

"SevenTimesSeven" wrote: Here’s my thought on the topic:

(1) We are looking for a 45 degree on landing on the plane of the table surface,
not at the release point…
The angle at release must then necessarily be less than 45 degrees…

(2) We can illustrate and prove this by using a garden hose at full stream and constant
flow. …

(3) On the topic of the dice landing face flat on the table… Landing with a smack, to me, has to be by accident…

Your thoughts, anyone?

1. Yes, this is correct based on physics. The engineers on this site can confirm this.

2. Great example that folks can visualize without knowing the math or physics theory behind it.

3. I hear the smack when the dice are rotating together side by side and land together parallel to the back wall. Yes, when they land flat it is different than when they land on the lateral edge. But if they are as I described you will still hear a solid sound even if they don’t land on the flat.

If the dice are in any other position when they land one will not hear the same sound. One die high with one low or lagging makes a different sound. If the dice are wobbling in the air you do not get the solid smack, etc.

I see you took the video 2 years ago. Can you check this out on that video? I don’t know if you can tell from the audio on the video. Let me know what you find there.

7 X 7,

I think the garden hose/water analogy is something we can all visualize or, if not, we can go outside to the garden and turn on the hose.

Perfect example for me so thanks for posting this! 😎

PatS I don’t know if you read this post or looked at it but may help .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

Look

brought back.
Good Rolling. 😀 😀 😀

I’m glad that you brought this back Finisher. At home I’ve noticed that I’m going to fast again and finding the dice are bouncing back past the pass line. Didn’t have that happening as a primer when I was tossing over someones arm.

Good rolling and soft landings

Thank you Sectioneight. Built and installed the goal post. I see improvements already. Looking forward to Foxwoods Saturday morning

John

This may work for some people but I tried this and it did not help. I started line driving it to the stick on a straight line with just enough energy to go over the stick. I have now placed a small tripod with a yard stick on it about midpoint between where I throw from and where I want it to land. I have gotten to the point that I really don’t notice or see the stick anymore and am able to keep the dice up for a good 40-45 degree take off and landing.

Eagle Eye Hope this helps .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

Finisher, I use white pvc pipe. I put 2 (90’s) at the top with 2 tee at the bottom for legs/support. I practice one thing at a time. I practice tossing over the pvc pipe for one drill and I might practice the follow through with forward motion of the dice on the next drill. Next day, I might practice landing in the bowl. Next day, I work on putting it all together. I have found the grip and backward motion to be the key for me. I have been using the toothpicks a lot lately. It has help with my accuracy and improved my grip. The forward stuff is easy. I know how they are going to land by the feeling I get on my fingers while in the back swing. I can hit two flies next to each other on the table and squash them both at the same time. How’s that for being accurate with the dice. I love to practice different drills. Mr. Finesse has taught me the importance of separating and focusing on one thing at a time and then putting it all together.

I am glad that you are doing as good as you are . It sounds like you are getting better and better .I just bring back some old posts do to the fact that some may have missed them and don’t go back and look at old ones .
Most of them are not even mine but have good info in them .
It is hard to know if you have read a post unless you post on it so that is one of the reasons I brought this post back plus it may help others too.
Hope we can meet some day and talk and roll . I have 4 eyes so could you an Eagle Eye . 😀 😀
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

This is old post you may want to read .
Good Rolling Section was a great help when I was building my table . 😀

I SEE THAT OVER 20 HAVE LOOKED AT THIS OLD POST . I am glad that I brought it back . I hope others who have not gone back and read old posts will do it now that they have seen that there is a lot of GREAT posts out there .
Good Rolling. 😀 🙂

I like the post & pics. I will have to try this.

High Arc

i thought I would bring this back up great info.

Good read.  Wanted to bring this back to the top again for newer members.   I have noticed at a Casino I go to often that the shooters that do well always have some height on the dice prior to landing zone.  

The objective of a optimum release angle is to deliver the dice to the landing zone with the least amount of translation energy.  This is to reduce the randomness caused by the dice bouncing off the table and the pyramids –  energy = randomness.  A 45 deg. angle would be optimum IF AND ONLY IF the dice were released from the surface of the table – which of course is not possible.  The exact perfect angle at release to minimize the translation energy and therefore the randomness is dependent on the release height above the table and the length of the throw.  From SL1, the length is estimated to be approximately 6.5 ft. from release to 6 inches from the back wall.  From my experience, the release point is about 18 inches above the table surface. With these assumptions, that is, 6.5 ft. throw length and 18 inch release above the table, the optimum release angle to deliver the dice to the landing zone is 38 deg.

The rule that Rose and Doc use is to release the dice at about shoulder height.  Releasing the dice at this height will generally have the dice come down at about a 45 degree angle to the table.  Your personal height may chance this a little.

While we got you, a short straight back swing, and setting your landing target about 6 inches  from the back wall, followed by a show forward swing should give you a soft landing of the dice and the dice will gently hit the pyramids on the back wall and come to a dead bounce of the dice.

The dice do not weight very much (almost nothing) and the back wall is not a long distance to say the least, so you dice should not bounce around very much.

Hope that helps.

Rose and Doc